Guild Structure discussion

I would be against a house system, cliqs are one thing, but a house system seems to segregate even more. For a group of 50 a 3-4 officer core is plenty.

hakuga wrote:Maximum 50 active members give or take a few is more than enough imo.

I really want our group to be tight knit, I want to really know all of our members to the extent of being able to jump headfirst into anything with them and successfully hit the ground running. I want to recognise someones voice the moment they speak on TS/Vent. Essential stuff.

This.

Yea I think it should just be open and people get on TS and group and play with who ever is on and in their level range so everyone can get to know everyone and not just stay in set groups.

house system can get too chaotic...

the thing is... our "new" group should have people who have the same common goal, work towards a common goal, with somewhat the same beliefs.

Yes, there should be an officer group, and a leader... but what if the leader is unfit to lead (from past examples). then what happens?

i do not nor want the same thing to happen to this group as what happened to ExGS...

companies are ran well with a hierarchy. those are are fit to lead should lead, but everyone's opinion should be accounted for.

There should be a CEO (guild leader), a COO/CFO (co-leader, 2nd to the CEO/leader) and a board of directors (officers).

The board of directors will have one total vote, the CFO/COO another, and the CEO/leader as the tie breaker.

of course...this is all my opinion.

If we do the voting for people, i honestly think we should also set limits on new recruits as well; i know that was a given but i wanted to make sure to put it out there.


Also, on the house system, if we get it to work unlike the very very very flawed AoC one we had in EXS.

For those that want a house system, you should post in detail how you envision it to look like so people get an idea what you are looking for.

Dengue wrote:I would be against a house system, cliqs are one thing, but a house system seems to segregate even more. For a group of 50 a 3-4 officer core is plenty.

This. Cliques are naturally and healthy. We all like gaming with each other that's why were here and that's not in question. Regardless of anything (it's just human nature) houses causes inter-guild division simply due to competition. Were all competitive people by nature and while rivalries start as friendly they often don't last that way long in my experience. Cliques rly aren't a problem b/c outside of raids we are all gonna be in different groups anyway for lvling etc. and we will all have preferences for who we want to group with.

I'm probably the only one that will come out and say this, but one of the major pros to having a house system is to seperate the WOW vs. Non-WOW. Even in ExGS there were problems between those groups. My personal problem was not with playing wow but the arrogance of the thought that wow players are somehow better, especially at pvp, which I laugh at.

To make this guild work, we need to get around that. So in some peoples mind, the house system is the way to do that. If there are better ways to combat that problem, we should speak up now. I would love for this to be my new home until the end of my gaming career. But for me, and others can speak for themselves, getting around this wow vs non wow will be a deciding factor.

I'm open to any ideas.

SneakyJes wrote:I'm probably the only one that will come out and say this, but one of the major pros to having a house system is to seperate the WOW vs. Non-WOW. Even in ExGS there were problems between those groups. My personal problem was not with playing wow but the arrogance of the thought that wow players are somehow better, especially at pvp, which I laugh at.

To make this guild work, we need to get around that. So in some peoples mind, the house system is the way to do that. If there are better ways to combat that problem, we should speak up now. I would love for this to be my new home until the end of my gaming career. But for me, and others can speak for themselves, getting around this wow vs non wow will be a deciding factor.

I'm open to any ideas.

For me, and I may be biased, it seems the "non-WoW" people sometimes have animosity toward the game in general which some WoW players get defensive about. Both or just silly IMO. If anyone thinks they are better @ gaming simply b/c they played a one MMO over another is being ridiculous. I don't think a house system is the answer but if people have a problem with WoW gamers or WoW gamers have a problem with non-wow players I would like to speak with you in TS3 ASAP. This is something that should be nipped in the bud.

There really is no real reason why one group should have a problem with the other. Think about it, is disliking or being condescending towards someone based on their MMO preference really healthy?

To be honest, and I don't want to get this off topic, but I'll just say it because it needs to be said.

I never had a problem nor do I think that being a good WoW player makes you better then anyone else in any other MMO. What made me defensive, as Slash put it, was the antagonistic comments that were often said in Exodus.

There was an application way early on in my enrollment where the hopeful stated his arena stats from WoW. I was impressed with them. They were dismissed and said that it didn't mean dick really. Later on, I was curious to someone's Arena ratings, the following response was "arena doesn't mean shit, but you can answer him."

I'll admit 100% that I was on the defensive from there on out because I felt then, and I feel now, that it's closed minded to say something like that. I don't care what MMO you come from, a competitive ladder is a competitive ladder. I thought guild wars was ridiculously easy, only eight hot keys? But if someone told me they never played any other MMO and they were among the top 5% in the thousands of team wide tournament (or so forth) I trust them to know what the fuck they're doing.

That's just my say on it, and that's how I feel completely. Beyond that, I think it's incredibly necessary that we don't have a house system with that in mind. We're here because we want to play together, doesn't matter where we come from, we're competent and efficient.

While it sounds ironic using the name now, Sargon said it best when we were voicing our concerns on the [SWTOR] Tag. "I'm a part of Exodus before I'm a player of TOR." I guess what I get from this is, we enjoy our company before anything else. I think the segregation could only hurt that.

WoW vs Non-WoW is worth talking about, but in another thread.

If we were targeting a 100-150 man guild, I'd be in favor of a house system. If we end up more at the 40-50 man level that we expect, I don't think they're necessary or a benefit.

And, it seems I'm a special snowflake on the "we don't need officers" theory, so I'll drop that one. I'm behind a standard GM/officer corps as long as what sneaky said applies-- each person needs specific duties, and if they're not performing them I'm sure they'd step down before needing to be replaced.

Acer wrote:WoW vs Non-WoW is worth talking about, but in another thread.

If we were targeting a 100-150 man guild, I'd be in favor of a house system. If we end up more at the 40-50 man level that we expect, I don't think they're necessary or a benefit.

And, it seems I'm a special snowflake on the "we don't need officers" theory, so I'll drop that one. I'm behind a standard GM/officer corps as long as what sneaky said applies-- each person needs specific duties, and if they're not performing them I'm sure they'd step down before needing to be replaced.

Agreed on both.

SneakyJes wrote:I'm probably the only one that will come out and say this, but one of the major pros to having a house system is to seperate the WOW vs. Non-WOW. Even in ExGS there were problems between those groups. My personal problem was not with playing wow but the arrogance of the thought that wow players are somehow better, especially at pvp, which I laugh at.

To make this guild work, we need to get around that. So in some peoples mind, the house system is the way to do that. If there are better ways to combat that problem, we should speak up now. I would love for this to be my new home until the end of my gaming career. But for me, and others can speak for themselves, getting around this wow vs non wow will be a deciding factor.

I'm open to any ideas.

I don't really have too many problems with WoW except I just cannot get into that game. Like Sneaky said, we do have Pro WoW and Anti WoW players though and as long as one group does not push their agenda on the other group, we will be fine. We all want to do what we enjoy, but as a one guild, we should still respect eachother and work together in SWTOR. That's how I see it.

That is why I thought house system would be great.

Genx wrote:

SneakyJes wrote:I'm probably the only one that will come out and say this, but one of the major pros to having a house system is to seperate the WOW vs. Non-WOW. Even in ExGS there were problems between those groups. My personal problem was not with playing wow but the arrogance of the thought that wow players are somehow better, especially at pvp, which I laugh at.

To make this guild work, we need to get around that. So in some peoples mind, the house system is the way to do that. If there are better ways to combat that problem, we should speak up now. I would love for this to be my new home until the end of my gaming career. But for me, and others can speak for themselves, getting around this wow vs non wow will be a deciding factor.

I'm open to any ideas.

I don't really have too many problems with WoW except I just cannot get into that game. Like Sneaky said, we do have Pro WoW and Anti WoW players though and as long as one group does not push their agenda on the other group, we will be fine. We all want to do what we enjoy, but as a one guild, we should still respect eachother and work together in SWTOR. That's how I see it.

That is why I thought house system would be great.

how exactly does the house system work?

I'm probably the only one that will come out and say this, but one of the major pros to having a house system is to seperate the WOW vs. Non-WOW. Even in ExGS there were problems between those groups. My personal problem was not with playing wow but the arrogance of the thought that wow players are somehow better, especially at pvp, which I laugh at.

To make this guild work, we need to get around that. So in some peoples mind, the house system is the way to do that. If there are better ways to combat that problem, we should speak up now. I would love for this to be my new home until the end of my gaming career. But for me, and others can speak for themselves, getting around this wow vs non wow will be a deciding factor.

I'm open to any ideas.

I guess on the subject of WoW vs. Non WoW...

It's more of a TS vs Non TS man....

I'm not trying to push the buck, but I consider Sargon a very close friend in this "guild" and he hasn't touched the game.

I dont think there needs to be any separation. The reasoning is multi fold. WoW is in its later life cycles (everyone admits it), newer mmo's will become the new staple eventually/in time (who knows which mmo or MMOS accomplishes it). If members can't respect each others differences and preferences for pvp and evaluation then it's an issue. I have my pro con to both "groups" if you call it that. However each is privileged to his/her opinion. Doesn't mean it's fact, etc. In short: I don't care who thinks they are more special due to where they got their pvp stripes, the main thing is that in SWTOR (or future games) we re-earn those stripes together, etc. Then the rest will be history.

To make it more specific, Sargon hangs out with alot of the "WoW" Group, but he's never touched the game, doesn't much care for which is why he hasn't tried it.

Another benefit of having house system is setting up Channel Commander system. You won't have to worry about dividing teams because it's already done.

But like I already stated:

I don't really have too many problems with WoW except I just cannot get into that game. Like Sneaky said, we do have Pro WoW and Anti WoW players though and as long as one group does not push their agenda on the other group, we will be fine. We all want to do what we enjoy, but as a one guild, we should still respect eachother and work together in SWTOR. That's how I see it.

That is why I thought house system would be great.

I brought up the wow vs non-wow because it just needs to be said so we can talk and move on. Better to get it out in the open then ignore it and have it come up at a later date. Everything I would have said, has already been said, so not going to rehash. Just glad we got it out there and no one's epeen exploded in the process.

@Acer, I'm glad that you gave up the idea of no officers. I've been thinking about it and I cannot see how it would have worked. Don't worry, you'll always be my special little snowflake.

I also wanted to clarify about how I see the leadership hierarchy. I really see the magic # being 5 leaders.

GL
Has full decision making authority
Acts as tie breaker on split decisions
Has no authority to act against the majority vote of officers
Is the figure head and molder of the policies
Acts more as a moderator and compass for the guild keeping things on track with the decided upon goals
Isn't necessarily the "leader" in game

4 officers
Has full decision making authority
drives he goals of the guild via the will of the community
In game reps and drivers, pushing the community
Creating groups, recruiting, etc.

I really see the GL as jack of all trades, trying to keep things in focus, but I see the officers as the driving force of the guild.

See they way I envision a house system if we use it is simple, they help each other out from time to time. Example of why it failed harshly in aoc (Sorry but it is a good example, honestly)

One of the houses was PVE, and while we were all suppose to be turning in mats for the keep and city, the PVE house leader said pretty much, 'Fuck that we are just raiding.' Which is kind of ironic since PVE and crafting are synonymous.

Cliques in most games and formats are actually do more harm than more good, especially in a gaming guild. Example: (similar to the one we used in exgs i think about 5 man arenas; BTW this is just a generalization of most cliques I have seen in gaming)

If one group of five play non-stop together, then one of them get's sick and it is the tank or the dps, and they want to run an instance yet non of their clique is around. So they either, A) Run the instance and get some random guildie or guy on the server or B) Don't run it at all.

See the problem with A is the fact they have to pull some one else in from the guild or server that they probably haven't ever worked with, and that can cause rather stupid drama.

Also I see cliques and friends as different things, in truth.

BTW not saying this is what would happen to anyone in this guild, just past examples why I see MOST cliques are fucking horrible. Also if it is confusing, sorry just woke up and have to goto a doc's apt wasting time lol.

Timaeus wrote:See they way I envision a house system if we use it is simple, they help each other out from time to time. Example of why it failed harshly in aoc (Sorry but it is a good example, honestly)

One of the houses was PVE, and while we were all suppose to be turning in mats for the keep and city, the PVE house leader said pretty much, 'Fuck that we are just raiding.' Which is kind of ironic since PVE and crafting are synonymous.

Cliques in most games and formats are actually do more harm than more good, especially in a gaming guild. Example: (similar to the one we used in exgs i think about 5 man arenas; BTW this is just a generalization of most cliques I have seen in gaming)

If one group of five play non-stop together, then one of them get's sick and it is the tank or the dps, and they want to run an instance yet non of their clique is around. So they either, A) Run the instance and get some random guildie or guy on the server or B) Don't run it at all.

See the problem with A is the fact they have to pull some one else in from the guild or server that they probably haven't ever worked with, and that can cause rather stupid drama.


BTW not saying this is what would happen to anyone in this guild, just past examples why I see MOST cliques are fucking horrible. Also if it is confusing, sorry just woke up and have to goto a doc's apt wasting time lol.

Another potential problem is that people are going to want to be in a house with those they clique with best which kind of defeats the whole purpose to begin with

Guild Structure works as a "Leadership Team" with major decisions etc... structure points.

Guild Leader - Typical guild leader duties, etc
HR/PR/Recruiting Officer
Recruitment Officer
Administrative/Jack of All Trade Officer - Guild Policies/Structure Evaluation/etc
Raid Officer

----

Or start smaller, with that said the structure would be:

GL
HR
Recruitment Officer
Raid Officer

more details and further explanations of how it could vary/change but something along those lines.

Solis Fate wrote:Guild Structure works as a "Leadership Team" with major decisions etc... structure points.

Guild Leader - Typical guild leader duties, etc
HR/PR/Recruiting Officer
Recruitment Officer
Administrative/Jack of All Trade Officer - Guild Policies/Structure Evaluation/etc
Raid Officer

----

Or start smaller, with that said the structure would be:

GL
HR
Recruitment Officer
Raid Officer

more details and further explanations of how it could vary/change but something along those lines.

I like that type more traditional in a way, it's just House's has way to much that can fuck up with it especially with a small group.

I really want all our members to know each other and spend time gaming together. Sure I may never be as close to some of you as I am with the a-team, but I feel we will be a better/stronger guild if we get more time in game with all of our guildies.

Chal wrote:I really want all our members to know each other and spend time gaming together. Sure I may never be as close to some of you as I am with the a-team, but I feel we will be a better/stronger guild if we get more time in game with all of our guildies.

agreed